Steven Wilson’s Drum/Overheads/Cymbal mixing

I hope that this is the right thread. I’m rather new here and after looking for a mixing/drum mixing thread (& failing), I figured I’d search and a couple of mixing questions seemed to be in here…

I have, obsessed over Steven Wilson’s mixes for a long time now. They are flawless to me. I get the same reaction from excellent engineering as I do when hearing Bach’s brilliance, or some insane riff from some mad death metal band... I’ve spent a lot of time analysing his mixes, in particular his drums. Especially nowadays with tools like Logics ‘stem splitter’, we can really have a look in at what he’s doing.

Obviously, his stuff is well recorded. He’s worked with the best of the best… And his mixes can be rather ‘standard’ in that sense. I don’t think that he’s doing anything insane per se (rather, a more ‘standardised’ approach to mixing). Though, the one thing which I cannot get right/emulate, are his overheads/cymbals.

He has them so bright and loud. They’re so present in every mix he performs. It’s almost as if he thins them out with a massive cut/shelf and then adds a big 10db+ boost to around 10khz. The issue, when I try this, it just sounds harsh, thin and brittle. His don’t, ever. I understand that yes, a lot of it comes from the recording process. But it is continuously a thing in his mixes. He did this before Soothe, too (see what I did there).

From ‘The Raven’, to ‘Hand Cannot Erase’; even the stuff he’s done for Opeth. They ALL have this similar cymbal processesing. On the documentary for ‘HCE’, you can see Marco Minnemann sat playing his kit (recorded at AIR) with (what looks to be) overhead mics slightly above and behind him (somewhat similar to what Gavin Harrison does). There’s also audio during that documentary which has been mixed, (though not anywhere near the brightness, nor the same processing as the album version) (https://youtu.be/fD_5z8E_cIc?si=ghu-JKxws3DdbV9_). During ‘The Raven’ (recorded at EastWest) documentary, there looks to be a more ‘traditional’ (sort of) overhead set-up. Whilst not behind Mr. Minnemann, they are still above him however (presumably to capture more cymbals). ‘The Raven’ was also tracked by Alan Parsons (https://youtu.be/IVC8Vtev3-Q?si=zb6NeWsPM0_6TTdc). I make this distinction, as whilst both drum sounds (of course) sound different, they both have a similar approach to overheads mixing/processing. ‘HCE’ of course sounds way more compressed, and obviously has drum samples, though there is absolutely continuity in the cymbal processing.

You can hear a more ‘raw’/unprocessed take on HCE here (https://youtu.be/S9h5vVlTbZw?si=MVDUYZjcdtOPRcKX). Obviously, still processed somewhat, but still so far apart from the album sound. He’s clearly doing something (presumably EQ) in the mix, and it’s not *all* in the recording per say…

‘The Raven’ documentary here (https://youtu.be/eTiLoiyHDRI?si=OE320VdSroKFQ2E3). Of course the room is important too. Though again, the cymbals/overheads contain a consistency across both records.

Here’s an Opeth track Wilson mixed for good measure (https://youtu.be/JHq9yMXw3iA?si=mOtB4d1NurFJsiOt). I actually think that’s a contender for my favourite mix of all time. Again, super bright, super loud overheads, but not harsh, brittle or thin in the slightest.

What do people think he’s doing here? Obviously it’s EQ based (I think so anyway), but I struggle to get close when emulating. I’m using Superior Drummer (with a myriad of expansions) and a couple tracks of live drums. Thanks.

ramble ramble ramble